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Comments

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Next Multichannel Music Server"

  • 5 hours ago
  • 1 point

Yes, All GeForce cards support CUDA. Geforce cards are popular choices for content creators, engineers, and scientists who want a lot of GPU for single precision or half precision compute on the cheap.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "I need a video editing PC"

  • 5 hours ago
  • 1 point

Just want to point out, there are numerous NVME SSD's to choose from that will run circles around that SATA SSD for around the same price.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Will I notice too much?"

  • 6 hours ago
  • 1 point

Hi ZFGeek,

The 2600 is a great CPU, noticeably better than an FX-8300 in daily use in my experience. However, the FX-8300 still falls into that category of "good enough" for lots of workloads.

Given your particular list of workloads from a previous response, I think you'd notice a nice performance uplift moving to a newer generation CPU.

I see your saved parts list that appears to be the "plan" for this summers upgrade.

I would personally spend less on the motherboard, less on the case, less on the RAM, and less on the OS ($115 buys Windows Pro from Trusted Tech Team). I would take the savings and go a few notches higher on the CPU ladder. I see you have a 2600X on there with a total list price of $760 right now... Consider the following adjustments:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU AMD - Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7 GHz 8-Core Processor $276.79 @ Amazon
Motherboard Gigabyte - B450 AORUS PRO WIFI (rev. 1.0) ATX AM4 Motherboard $109.99 @ Newegg Business
Memory Corsair - Vengeance RGB Pro 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory $89.99 @ Newegg
Case Thermaltake - View 31 TG ATX Mid Tower Case $111.38 @ Amazon
Operating System Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit $115.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $703.15
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-25 00:28 EDT-0400

Step all the way up to a 2700X for less cash.

I figure that way, you're putting a nail in the coffin for that FX-8300.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Uses for spare CPU"

  • 6 hours ago
  • 1 point

When you list the CPU for sale, include in the search terms FX-6300 / FX-6350, not just FX-6330, which is a rare OEM part which people aren't likely to search for.

Also... be realistic about pricing it.

With Ryzen 3 1200's going for $65 new, and hoards of refurbished business class computers available for dirt cheap with superior sandy/ivy/haswell generation CPU's in them, the FX-6330 is probably not worth more than $35 used.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "RAM for Ryzen 7"

  • 18 hours ago
  • 1 point

Setting RAM to run at a JEDEC defined speed/timing that both the memory controller and RAM supports is not overclocking.

I haven't found any language in the JEDEC spec requiring that DDR4 "default" to 2133 and only 2133 speeds. The system can default to the highest mutually supported speeds. SPD profiles can and do often include speed/timing data for 2400/2666 and faster speeds.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Looking to build a PC that is consistant at running 144fps"

  • 1 day ago
  • 2 points

For the price of that CPU and HSF, we could afford a CPU way better than the 2600 will ever overclock to....

Comment reply on Forum Topic "RAM for Ryzen 7"

  • 1 day ago
  • 1 point

Hi Montgomery,

If you're concerned about system stability, good quality RAM operated at reasonable speeds for the configuration is a good idea.

Here's one publication about supported speeds for these CPU's:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2018/06/06/2nd-Gen-AMD-Ryzen-Supported-RAM-Speeds-1175/

I say, "one publication" because, I've seen other sources, including motherboard manufactures, post very different looking charts for these CPU's, so it's not really clear what the "rated" speeds actually are.

These "supported speeds" are really more about guaranteed minimum performance assuming RAM of barely passing QC and on the edge of DDR4 characteristic specifications. I believe these "minimum" speed ratings for the 4X configurations also assume worst case scenarios like mixed memory types, etc.

On paper, the Ryzen 2 CPU's are only supposed to handle 1866MT/s when loaded up with 64GB RAM... At work, I run 64GB RAM at 2666MT/s without a hiccup.

I chose Patriot Viper Elite for that build, because that stuff is purported to be made with Samsung B die, which has historically been very stable on the AM4 platform. By using a batch of decent quality memory all "matched" from the same production run, the real world stability extends far above the minimum rating.

With good quality RAM, especially stuff on the QVL for the motherboard, I would consider Ryzen 2000 series CPU's to be overwhelmingly stable when operated at:

~3000-3200MT/s for 2 X 4GB or 2 X 8GB single rank DIMM's

~2800-3000 for 2 X 8GB or 2 X 16GB dual rank DIMM's

~2666-2800MT/s for 4 X 4GB or 4 X 8GB single rank DIMM's

~2400-2666MT/s for 4 X 8GB or 4 X 16GB dual rank DIMM's

It's worth pointing out, that rank interleave, made possible by installing more than 1 rank per channel, has it's own set of performance benefits. Given the intended use of the machine, I'd highly recommend going for 2 X 16GB or more RAM for this build anyway, which both ensures rank interleave, and of course, provides adequate memory for a smooth workflow.


With ALL of that said, if serious system stability is a major concern of yours, have you considered building on a platform that supports ECC memory?

An Intel E-2146G on a SUPERMICRO MBD-X11SCA-F-O with a pair of 16GB ECC Unbuffered 2666MT/s DDR4 DIMM's would be a nice start to a "stability oriented" build.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "RAM for Ryzen 7"

  • 1 day ago
  • 1 point

I heard that all DDR4 RAM clock speeds over 2133 MHz is overclocked

Correct according to the DDR4 specification.

JEDEC defines standard speeds/timings for DDR4 from 1600-3200MT/s.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Video Editing PC!"

  • 2 days ago
  • 2 points

If this build is not an emergency, I would personally wait to see what happens with new CPU's coming out.

The 8700K won't get cheaper, but alternatives will be available. Intel doesn't really do price adjustment on old products.

I would operate on the assumption that AMD and Intel are both likely to face a series of exploit discoveries in the coming years in their CPU architectures. I wouldn't count on this being an "Intel only" issue. AMD has had it's share of these exposed in the last year or 2 as well. It's also worth noting, that we seem to be in an era where these vulnerability discoveries may be driven by some less than honest stock market activity, more-so than actual security concerns. I mean... in many historical examples, security vulnerabilities are discovered as a result of them being exploited in the wild. A new "thing" comes along that exploits the vulnerability, and then they frantically patch it. Now it seems like there are teams of 3rd party researchers around the world trying to find vulnerabilities in existing products not for the sake of exploiting them, rather, it would appear for the sake of causing a predictable price fluctuation for the companies involved in the market. (Why the heck else would they be doing this? Who would fund this work if there wasn't money to be made doing it?). Far as I know, none of these "cpu vulnerabilities" discovered on AMD or Intel products in the last few years, have been exploited anywhere in the wild.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is my CPU going to bottleneck my GPU"

  • 2 days ago
  • 3 points

For a 100FPS performance goal with streaming and background applications anticipated, the 2700X will work great.

I think you're still conceptualizing the performance difference between the 2700X and 9700K incorrectly, but it doesn't matter, you'll likely be very happy with either.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is my CPU going to bottleneck my GPU"

  • 2 days ago
  • 2 points

A benchmark performed at 1440P ultra is going to artificially mask the performance difference under a GPU bottleneck. Unless you plan to play nothing but benchmarks, then 1440P ultra benchmark is not the one that counts for figuring out discrepancies in CPU performance. You can still play at 1440P and make visual quality adjustments to hit performance goals...

If your performance goals are lower, then it doesn't matter anyway.

The link I send there shows pretty wide margins for performance discrepancy.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "GIS Workstation?"

  • 2 days ago
  • 3 points

Glad to help!

I don't maintain a presence on any social media. Not for me ;) I'm mostly occupied by work. Participation on forums like this is an opportunity to give back to the "tech" community a bit with areas I am pretty knowledgeable about. Certainly I have utilized thousands of other forums as research tools to find answered to computer/server/system related questions I wind up with.

Best of luck with the new system!

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is my CPU going to bottleneck my GPU"

  • 3 days ago
  • 2 points

Yea... posting the markup helps us understand your value analysis at the time of putting the build together.


I guess I can't help but think... if you're in the market for a Ryzen 7, GTX 2060 build with pumped liquid cooling and RGB everywhere, we've sort of established that value isn't the main goal... so why not just eliminate any concern about whether the CPU is good enough and buy the 9700K instead for a few bucks more.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is my CPU going to bottleneck my GPU"

  • 3 days ago
  • 2 points

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3421-intel-i7-9700k-review-benchmark-vs-8700k-and-more


For video editing, the 9700K is equal or better in most applications.

For streaming, you're likely to get higher FPS on the gamers side while streaming with good viewer side results on the 9700K.

Obviously, the 9700K is better in gaming by fairly big margins.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is my CPU going to bottleneck my GPU"

  • 3 days ago
  • 3 points

The performance capabilities of the 2700 are the same regardless of what GPU it is paired with.

Lets say you want to play game X at 140FPS, but the 2700 can only accomplish 110FPS in that game. The GPU selection doesn't matter at this point. Selecting a lower powered GPU wouldn't get us back up to 140FPS so there's no point concerning ourselves with whether the 2700 bottleneck's a particular model or range of models of GPU.

The question needs to change.

You need to establish what your performance goals vs visual quality goals are, and select hardware that meets those goals, or that allocates resources based on how much you prioritize each of those goals.

Are you buying a 60hz monitor? 75hz monitor? 144hz monitor? 165hz? 180hz? 240hz? Are you turning visual quality settings down to get as many FPS as you can get or are you cranking visual quality settings up until the FPS is as low as you can tolerate?

Some gamers build for performance (FPS), some build for visual quality (resolution/settings), some build for BOTH (at very high cost).


Here's your build as it appears to me right now when I click on it

(please post the markup in the future so you are posting a "locked in" version of what you thought you were posting).

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2 GHz 8-Core Processor $208.67 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Corsair - H100i RGB PLATINUM 75 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler $147.99 @ Amazon
Motherboard MSI - B450 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard $109.99 @ Amazon
Memory Corsair - Vengeance RGB Pro 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory $109.99 @ Amazon
Storage Samsung - 860 QVO 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive $107.99 @ Amazon
Storage Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $45.40 @ OutletPC
Video Card MSI - GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB GAMING Z Video Card $379.99 @ Newegg
Case Phanteks - ECLIPSE P350X ATX Mid Tower Case $68.53 @ Newegg Business
Power Supply Corsair - TXM Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply $103.98 @ Newegg
Case Fan Deepcool - RF 120 (3 in 1) 56.5 CFM 120 mm Fans $37.99 @ SuperBiiz
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $1320.52
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-21 21:35 EDT-0400

So we have $210 towards a CPU, $150 towards a heatsink that would probably allow an overclock to 4.0-4.2GHZ.

You mentioned in another response, that you couldn't see the point of the 2700X when the 2700 can be overclocked to match its performance.

The point of the 2700X, is that for $280 running on the stock heatsink, it will accomplish the same performance as what you'll overclock the 2700 to at a cost of $360 + your time to fiddle with settings and validate the stability of the overclock.


With $360 to CPU related expenses and $380 going to GPU related expenses, one could surmise that this build is intended to have approximately a balanced approach to performance vs visual quality.


If you're worried about performance, and in the market for $360 worth of CPU+heatsink... then you may as well just put the nail in the coffin of concern and get a 9700K:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU Intel - Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor $399.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Noctua - NH-U12S 55 CFM CPU Cooler $57.99 @ Amazon
Motherboard Gigabyte - Z390 UD ATX LGA1151 Motherboard $109.89 @ OutletPC
Memory Corsair - Vengeance RGB Pro 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory $89.99 @ Newegg
Storage Corsair - MP510 960 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $119.99 @ Amazon
Storage Seagate - Desktop HDD 4 TB 3.5" 5900RPM Internal Hard Drive $73.85 @ Amazon
Video Card Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB OC Video Card $339.99 @ Newegg
Case Phanteks - ECLIPSE P350X ATX Mid Tower Case $68.53 @ Newegg Business
Power Supply EVGA - 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply $88.98 @ SuperBiiz
Case Fan Deepcool - RF 120 (3 in 1) 56.5 CFM 120 mm Fans $37.99 @ SuperBiiz
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $1387.19
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-21 22:39 EDT-0400

For $70 more you get:

A CPU that's ~25% faster than an overclocked 2700 in gaming.

A Heatink that has no risk of leaking on your build, no risk of pump failure, and no risk of liquid evaporation/loss over time. The liquid heatpipes on this traditional heatsink are a much more reliable way to cool using liquid as a medium.

An SSD with 4X the endurance and 4X the performance.

An HDD with 4X the space.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How bad is the AMD A-6-9600?"

  • 3 days ago
  • 1 point

Not sure what you're budget is.. but have a look here:

https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-001E-1WC02

So that's a quad core Sandy Bridge, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, Windows 10 Pro, ~$300.

The Z420 has a single 6 pin power for a GPU, so you can go up to most 150W cards. The RX 570 would be a great choice here.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "When is liquid cooling efficiency worth it?"

  • 3 days ago
  • 1 point

Unfortunately, even the manufacturers and re-sellers are using "MHZ" in place of "MT/S." I feel your pain.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "When is liquid cooling efficiency worth it?"

  • 4 days ago
  • 4 points

liquid heatpipes count as liquid cooling, and do a great job of liquid cooling CPU's at low cost, with no surface to surface seals or pumps to fail or permeable materials for coolant to slowly evaporate though.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Video Editing PC!"

  • 4 days ago
  • 1 point

Ok, just to clarify a few things, are you saying to use the 1TB MP510 SSD for the editing content / media / cache drive. And then the other 500GB SSD, lets say the kingston A400 for now, for boot / os/ applications?

I would just go NVME on both or SATA on both. Not one of one kind and one of another. Pick a lane for the build. Either barrel scrape both drives or step up to the value/performance cross section with the XPG SX8200 and MP510 mentioned.

I thought it would be the other way round? Where the high end MP510 would be used for the os etc.

It would work either way, but the way I figure it, if you ever wanted to move data from one to the other, it sure would be nice if they were both blazing fast NVME drives.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "GIS Workstation?"

  • 4 days ago
  • 1 point

but what are your thoughts on the risk?

I've bought lots of refurbs at work. Had pretty good luck overall. The value is worth the risk IMO.

Is there anything I should watch out for, such as manufacturer ratings on newegg?

These are sold by marketplace vendors. Check the markeplace vendor ratings and ensure they are maintaining high customer satisfaction.

And is the risk of someone else's "incriminating" data left over on a hard drive even legitimate?

I'm not sure what you mean by "incriminating" in this context, but a good refurbisher will wipe the drive and do a clean install of windows. In many cases, the drive included is brand new.

Is it even possible?

Technically, yes... I would not worry about that. if you're concerned about it though, when you get the machine, use a utility to write zeros or patterns to the free space on the drive. There are many utilities designed to do this.

I guess part of me wants to be reassured I'm making the right moves, but I'm also still trying to build on a very rudimentary understanding of very technical concepts.

These Dell precision series machines are true enterprise workstation stuff. Very dependable. I just retired a 12 year old precision series laptop at work that was still actually working fine other than being a bit slow for 2019 application.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is this worth the money as a all around workhorse. I dont want to have to buy anything for a while. Like. 10 years."

  • 4 days ago
  • 1 point

Heatpipe coolers still leverage the awesome thermal mass of a liquid moving around to distribute heat to a heat-sink, but without all the things that can go wrong with hoses and pumps and seals. I'm not sure why people call these "air" coolers. The same logic that calls a liquid heatpipe cooler an"air" cooler would certainly call a CLC an "air" cooler as well, since they are both ultimately driving the thermal energy of the CPU to atmosphere.

The Lian Li 011 series cases are optimized for pumped liquid cooling solutions. They don't have the clearance for large heatpipe coolers over the CPU. Nice case, but I would avoid it if your plan is to make a computer that could last 10 years. Pick something with room for a traditional heatpipe tower.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Ryzen 5 1600 vs 2600"

  • 4 days ago
  • 3 points

Pricing of a new CPU has a lot more to do with the competition in the market and where that new CPU can be priced to offer a compelling value alternative to the competition.

The i3-8100 launch offering 4C/4T at the entry level, had nothing to do with the i5-7600, and everything to do with an alignment to offer a value alternative to AMD's product stack that was offering 6C/12T at i5-7600 prices and 4C/4T at less than the cost of an i3.

When Ryzen 3rd gen launches, AMD will price it into the existing market. There's no reason for them to offer a newer, better 6C/12T processor at lower prices than existing 6C/12T processors unless the market is offering competition to drive the price of that new product down.

If AMD gets a new 6C/12T product that they are calling a "Ryzen 3 3600" or similar, to market before Intel makes any big changes, they're going to price that product as high as they can get away with. I expect this to be a $200 product (give or take $20) on launch if it is as good or better than a 2600X.

There's also a very high likelihood, that the low end of the product stack will continue to be made up of 1st and 2nd gen Ryzens for many months after 3rd gen launch. It's feasible they will only begin shipping the high end products that fit into a slot ABOVE the 2700X for the first several months to tap into that $400+ segment of the CPU space on consumer platforms, and then role out lower SKU's as inventory of previous generation stuff is depleted, and/or as Intel responds with tougher competition in the low range.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is this worth the money as a all around workhorse. I dont want to have to buy anything for a while. Like. 10 years."

  • 5 days ago
  • 2 points

So how do I check to make sure nothing is going to leak?

Simple:

Don't buy a product that can fail/leak like that.

Liquid heatpipe coolers will last basically forever. Just put a new fan on them when the bearings wear out.

Any of the following:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU Cooler Phanteks - PH-TC14PE_BK 78.1 CFM CPU Cooler $84.89 @ OutletPC
CPU Cooler Phanteks - PH-TC12DX 68.5 CFM CPU Cooler $59.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Noctua - NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler $63.75 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler be quiet! - Shadow Rock Slim 67.8 CFM Rifle Bearing CPU Cooler $49.80 @ OutletPC
CPU Cooler Thermalright - TRUE Spirit 140 POWER 73.6 CFM CPU Cooler $49.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Phanteks - PH-TC14S_BK 68.09 CFM CPU Cooler $44.99 @ Newegg
CPU Cooler Scythe - Mugen MAX 97.18 CFM CPU Cooler $56.72 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Noctua - NH-D15S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler $79.90 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Thermalright - Macho Rev.B 73.6 CFM CPU Cooler $49.90 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Thermalright - Le Grand Macho RT 73.6 CFM CPU Cooler $79.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Thermalright - Macho X2 Limited Edition CPU Cooler $55.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Scythe - FUMA Rev.B 79 CFM CPU Cooler $46.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Scythe - Mugen 5 Rev. B 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler $54.89 @ OutletPC
CPU Cooler be quiet! - Dark Rock Pro 4 50.5 CFM CPU Cooler $88.09 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler be quiet! - Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler $74.90 @ Amazon
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-19 22:46 EDT-0400

Some of these, like the D15 from Noctua, are available with 1 or 2 fans. You could buy the 2 fan version but only install the 1 in the middle (they work fine like this), then set the second fan aside as a backup to install if the first one ever wears out. Or just use it as an extra case fan instead.

All of the heatsinks above, use proven reliable, leak free liquid heatpipe technology. No pumps to fail, no surface to surface seals, no permeable materials for the liquid to slowly escape through. Every one of the heatsinks above can go toe to toe with the cooling performance of many popular 140mm-240mm CLCs. In fact, if compared on an equalized decibel for decibel performance scale, these often win.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermalright/Le_Grand_Macho/6.html

Check out the Le Grand Macho there.... performing within 2 degrees of a high end 240mm CLC while operating a full 6dB quieter. Why would anyone pay more for a noisier, less reliable CLC when something like this is available?

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Home server multi-use"

  • 5 days ago
  • 1 point

One of the concerns I had with this build was having four of us streaming four different movies off the computer at the same time and having buffering issues or other problems as a result. I considered looking into a Supermicro board and older Xeon processors; I wonder if the only reason no one has suggested this route is that my budget is too low for it?

I'm not sure why... but used working enterprise motherboards tend to hold their value way too well to be feasible. The best value for using an old Xeon actually lies in buying a complete computer that has the guts already in it.... The newegg marketplace has a ton of options that might be worth a look for you. You could buy a server and harvest parts from it, or just use as-is.

Here's some options:

https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-0003-0BJH3

https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-001E-14JW4

These only have 3 X 3.5" bays inside, but you could turn 5.25" bay into a 4th with an adapter, or use velcro to stick one somewhere...

I wonder about cooling, though. I have an SDD that I swapped into my work computer and it seems to work fine, but I've never opened the case to see how hot it gets. I see that some boards have the ability to use the SDD as additional memory (kind of a super-fast page file) and I wonder with the additional load if there have been issues with solid state drives overheating? As close as an M.2 mounts to the mobo I was thinking there might not be adequate airflow, esp on the side facing the mobo.

Honestly you're getting into a bunch of concern that is not applicable...

Yes SSD's produce heat when they are under a load, but you're using your SSD as a boot/application drive in this machine, so it's not under constant load. it will idle 99.9% of the time, and sip a fraction of a watt while doing this. Don't worry about the SSD it will be fine.

M.2 drives start to have problems with heat when people use them in I/O heavy server applications and media editing situations that involve sustained high bandwidth read/write. Your media is going on spinning disks so not an issue. This is why high end workstations and servers use U.2 and Ruler style SSD's for workload space. That being said, LOTS of high end servers use M.2 on the motherboard as standard boot drives.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is this worth the money as a all around workhorse. I dont want to have to buy anything for a while. Like. 10 years."

  • 5 days ago
  • 2 points

If we were to graph the life and failure of a thousand CLC's over say, 10 years, we would probably get something close to a bell curve, but with a bit of a spike on the front end from DOA/early failures. Most failures would likely occur in the 5-8 year range, and a few stranglers would hold out to 10+ years.

I think the odds of a CLC still working after 10 years is less than 25%, maybe worse. Just my opinion. The reality is CLC's have only been a mainstream cooling solution for PC's for about the last 5 years or so, so we just haven't seen the data yet on how long they can actually last, but I have pretty good intuition for this sort of stuff and am comfortable with my educated guess.

Consider for a moment.. a car radiator and cooling system.... These systems require fluid maintenance about every 3-5 years, and often require fluid top-ups every 6-24 months depending on use and environment even when working properly. Without regular maintenance the fluid breaks down and stops lubricating the pump. It can also wind up turning corrosive to the system causing leaks and deposit buildup. Even with proper maintenance, pumps, radiators, seals, and hoses all have an average service life of around 10 years or 100,000 miles.

It's worth noting, that in that 10 year, 100,000 mile life, that's only about 5,000 operating hours assuming an average speed of 20MPH. A computer that is turned on for 4 hours a day would accumulate closer to 15,000 operating hours in the same 10 years. Do you think the cheesy little pumps and seals that come on a CLC are going to last 15,000 hours?


Anyway, your roommate should replace that CLC with a regular heat-pipe heat-sink right away.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is this worth the money as a all around workhorse. I dont want to have to buy anything for a while. Like. 10 years."

  • 5 days ago
  • 2 points

K. So. I'm still learning what stuff is. vrm? The little power cell looking things in the shape of an l around the top left of the cpu slot.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1229-anatomy-of-a-motherboard-what-is-a-vrm-mosfet?showall=1

and how do you oc.

There are thousands of guides around the internet for this. I would suggest reading/watching some. At a basic level, overclocking can mean either increasing the power envelope of the CPU to allow it to overclock itself higher, or taking manual control of the voltage and clock speeds through BIOS settings or "tuning" applications.

And why do you need it?

You don't need it, it is optional. Modern high end CPU's are basically "self" overclocking near the limits anyway, so there's not much to be gained manually overclocking anymore. On Intel, simply allowing the CPU to operate with more power margin is easy and provides a bump in performance. Most motherboards are coming with this enabled by default anyway.

But my main concern in this build is if the GPU is going to artifact.

Not sure I can help with that. Try picking a GPU that that has a lot of positive feedback from verified buyers with minimal reports of issues like artifacts.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Video Editing PC!"

  • 5 days ago
  • 1 point

Or should I stick with your recommendation of using an ADATA SSD and HP EX920? If you could explain in more detail as to why you have chosen these SSD's and how that relates to video editing / the level of performance that I need, that would be great thanks.

Any SSD has more performance than required for the type of footage you're editing, so it honestly doesn't matter much. Where that leaves me is just trying to get the "most" for the money, but there are many ways to define what "most" is here. If I can make a big leap in performance or endurance for say, £20, I'll take it.

So if I'm picking an SSD for applications/boot/scratch space in that ~500GB size, I sort of see 3 approaches to this. 1. Barrel scrape the cheapest SSD that is reputable. 2. Find the value and performance cross section in the market. 3. Go high end for the sake of high end. (cost no object builds).

For a build in this "class" we can go for option 1 or 2 with the boot SSD and do just fine. You could use a Kingston A400 as your boot/application drive for £45. Stepping up to £65 moves us into PCIE NVME drives in this size class. For £20 I can rationalize that stepping stone as it does buy about 3-7X (or more) the performance on paper, which can buy some improvements in application loading and booting performance. This performance advantage would be especially noticeable when the system resorts to a drive to use as scratch space.

In that ~£65 price point, we have the cricual P1, Intel 660P, and ADATA XPG SX8200. Among these, the P1 and 660P are based on new QLC NAND. They have much higher access latency, less consistent performance as they fill up, and much lower endurance than the TLC based XPG drive, so for me, the value lies with ADATA in your market.

Option "3" would be the 970 Evo, at £100ish for a 500GB. Yes this is a better drive on paper, but the margins aren't wide enough to justify the price leap IMO.

Moving on to the editing drive... We could barrel scrape and make do just fine with an ADATA Ultimate SU650 960GB for £80. The 660P is available for £100 which is a nice leap in "paper" performance for not much spend. I opted for the EX920 (which, unfortunately, isn't available anymore), because it offers 3X the endurance, lower latency, better performance consistency as it fills up, etc, for £30 more. I could rationalize this. With that option gone we'd be looking at the Corsair MP510 for £140 now, which is another very good value NVME choice, as the MP510 competes handily with the likes of the far more expensive 970 EVO in this size class, offering over 8X more write endurance than a 660P and almost 3X the write endurance of the EX920. That's a lot of "peace of mind." So then we're talking a difference of £60 to go from a dirt cheap SATA drive to a premium NVME drive, all things considered, I think there's enough being brought to the table by the MP510 to rationalize it, especially since this drive is intended to be used as a content creation drive.

With that said,

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Video Editing PC!"

  • 6 days ago
  • 2 points

More details about your footage would really help.

A lot of people get into this hobby video editing, do some research on video editing systems, and think they need a PCIE NVME SSD as their editing drive because they see someone recommending that, or a benchmark showing an advantage to that on the internet somewhere.

In reality, most people are editing compressed footage captured on a consumer device that is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-50Mbps for 1080P, or ~40-400Mpbs for 4K.

Translated to MB/s (the units used to describe drive performance), that's ~1-50MB/s bandwidth. You mentioned you work primarily with 1080P? That's almost certainly only going to be about 12MB/s at the top end unless you are using a specialized recording on high end camera gear.

A modern 7200RPM drive can do 100-200+MB/s sequential, depending on the model and how full it is. (I have a 12TB drive at work that is near 240MB/s on the outer edge)

Modern SATA SSD's can sustain 400-500MB/s+ in sequential read/write workloads.

PCIE NVME drives do 1000-3500MB/s sequential.

In other-words, you could edit on any of these and probably do very well. There's an advantage in editing interactive responsiveness moving to an SSD from a spinning drive (for scrubbing and such), but there's no requirement to go to a high performance SSD or PCIE/NVME. If that's the best deal then by all means, go ahead.


If you had footage whose bandwidth requirements were high enough to actually need PCIE NVME speed for a good smooth editing experience, then a 1TB size SSD would only be large enough to hold about 10-20 minutes of footage ;)


Anyway with that academic crap out of the way.... If it were my build...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU AMD - Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7 GHz 8-Core Processor £259.00 @ Amazon UK
CPU Cooler be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.14 CFM CPU Cooler £19.99 @ Amazon UK
Motherboard ASRock - X470 Taichi ATX AM4 Motherboard £183.09 @ CCL Computers
Memory Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory £133.98 @ Aria PC
Storage ADATA - XPG SX8200 480 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive £64.99 @ CCL Computers
Storage HP - EX920 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive £129.49 @ Amazon UK
Storage Western Digital - Blue 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive £88.95 @ Ebuyer
Storage Western Digital - Blue 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive £88.95 @ Ebuyer
Video Card MSI - GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB VENTUS OC Video Card £319.97 @ Amazon UK
Case NZXT - H500i ATX Mid Tower Case £97.99 @ AWD-IT
Power Supply Corsair - RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply £90.97 @ Novatech
Operating System Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit -
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total £1477.37
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-19 11:09 BST+0100

I wouldn't bother putting a high end cooler on the 2700X. It won't really do anything. Just run it stock and put a quiet small cooler on it.

I would bump up to an X470 board with better I/O / connectivity... B450's really hurt when you start installing stuff. I have some B450 machines and find myself right up against the limits of their connectivity all the time.

I would probably just get both SSD's in PCIE NMVE, since they are cheap either way these days. I would take the EX920 over the 660P. It offers much more consistent performance as it is filled up, has better latency and real world bandwidth performance, and offers 3X the endurance. A 660P doesn't strike me as a good SSD choice for video toaster drive with such low endurance (only 200 full drive writes!). In reality, if we go back to the academic stuff... it doesn't matter for what you're doing, a 660P will likely work fine.

I tossed a couple big 4TB drives in there. 1 for storage, another for backup. If you don't need that much space and use cloud backup, never-mind this change.


An Intel 8700 build is also worth consideration:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor £274.99 @ Aria PC
CPU Cooler be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.14 CFM CPU Cooler £19.99 @ Amazon UK
Motherboard MSI - MPG Z390 GAMING EDGE AC ATX LGA1151 Motherboard £138.98 @ Box Limited
Memory Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory £133.98 @ Aria PC
Storage ADATA - XPG SX8200 480 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive £64.99 @ CCL Computers
Storage HP - EX920 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive £129.49 @ Amazon UK
Storage Western Digital - Blue 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive £88.95 @ Ebuyer
Storage Western Digital - Blue 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive £88.95 @ Ebuyer
Video Card MSI - GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB VENTUS OC Video Card £319.97 @ Amazon UK
Case NZXT - H500i ATX Mid Tower Case £97.99 @ AWD-IT
Power Supply Corsair - RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply £90.97 @ Novatech
Operating System Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit -
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total £1449.25
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-19 11:23 BST+0100

Actually winds up a bit cheaper for similar capability... The main thing seems to be better availability of I/O rich motherboards at lower price points.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Opinions Wanted On This AMD Build"

  • 6 days ago
  • 2 points

The VEGA 64 GPU can pull ~300W by itself. Technically, the PSU you have selected should handle this.

As configured, I would expect your system to be capable of pulling ~450W from the PSU during stress testing. I would choose a high quality 550-650W PSU or midgrade quality 600-750W PSU to power that. Headroom is always a good idea. There's a reason servers that only use 300-700W come with dual redundant 1200W PSU's.

An RTX 2060 offers the same performance, more features, half the power dissipation, and lower purchase price.

I would make the following changes:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU AMD - Ryzen 5 2600X 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor $174.89 @ OutletPC
Motherboard Gigabyte - X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard $129.99 @ Amazon
Memory G.Skill - Flare X 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory $90.98 @ Newegg
Storage HP - EX900 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $63.89 @ OutletPC
Video Card Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB OC Video Card $339.99 @ Newegg
Case NZXT - H500 ATX Mid Tower Case $69.99 @ Amazon
Power Supply Corsair - CX (2017) 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply $52.99 @ Amazon
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $922.72
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-19 05:13 EDT-0400

Note: It only costs $23 to DOUBLE the size of the SSD. 250GB size class SSD's are no longer worth bothering with.


On a side note (teachable moment for all). Please post the markup of a build, not just a link. The prices in a link will vary, and we won't all see what you're seeing for prices depending on how we have our preferences at PCP configured (to include or not include MIR's for example).

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Is this worth the money as a all around workhorse. I dont want to have to buy anything for a while. Like. 10 years."

  • 6 days ago
  • 4 points

If you expect 10 years out of the build, do not put a CLC in it.

10 years out of a CLC isn't likely. It'll either leak on your build, stop working due to liquid loss over time, incur pump failure, or some combination of these things in that time frame.

Liquid heatpipes are the industry standard for reliable liquid cooling. You'll find them in servers, on the space station, in enterprise grade workstations and laptops, on the alaska oil pipeline, in mission critical military communications equipment, and you can enjoy all that proven reliability for less than the cost of a CLC.

CLC's are a fad for dealing with thermal density issues that are only a problem when CPU's are operated at overclocked power levels.

The 9700K, if configured with it's factory power limit enforced, can be cooled by a $20 liquid heatpipe cooler just fine. On a larger, $40-80 heatpipe cooler, you can manually configure higher power limits that will keep it operating in the mid 4.4-4.9GHZ range in most workloads. The CLC might let you run with the power limit disabled, maintaining 0.1-0.2GHZ higher average clock speeds, at enormous power cost increases that are just going to wear out the VRM's on the motherboard sooner anyway.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Cheapo entry lvl pc/Wow build"

  • 6 days ago
  • 1 point

Might have to eat crow on this....

The Team RAM that has been in my home computer for about 6 months suddenly went unstable today. Granted, I've had it "tuned" in at 1.25V, 2800 14-16-16 for awhile, which is less voltage and tighter timings than it is rated for (XMP profile is 1.35V 3000-16-18-18).

I bumped the voltage back up to 1.35V and loosened the timings back to XMP profile and the machine seems to be stable again. Weird that it has been stable for months and suddenly the change.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "After much consideration, how trash is this gonna be?"

  • 6 days ago
  • 4 points

If you want to do an "bridge" architecture xeon for a gaming build, you're going to want one of the higher clocked CPU options.

The E5-1650 V2 and 2667 V2 are good choices.... The 1650 V2 will perform in gaming very similar to Ryzen 1600/1600X/2600 class CPU's.

The 2420 V2's low clock speeds would put it about on par with the gaming performance of an FX-8320, which, is pretty terrible.

The way to leverage some value from these older platforms is to buy a refurbished enterprise workstation and then toss a gaming GPU into it.

Here's a Dell T3610 with an E5-1650 V2, 32GB RAM, 500GB SSD, Windows 10 Pro license included!!!:

https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-0001-1GMR7

$443.

(you could also drop down to 16GB for $411, but for $30 more I think the 32GB is worth it for the long haul).

Add a 1660Ti and you're right around that same $700 mark as either the Ryzen build demonstrated by Planemaster or your original 2420V2 build, but in this case it INCLUDES a windows license (and twice as much RAM), so by my figuring is actually about $100+ less expensive.

I would advise against the 1660Ti you originally selected... That thing is 3 slots wide.. that's going to be annoying IMO... covering up slots on the motherboard that might be helpful for adding things like a wifi card someday. Pick a dual fan dual slot GPU.

Also... if the POINT of this, is to improve the VALUE of the build, consider a more cost efficient GPU choice. An RX 570 will give you 65% of the render throughput for less than half the price. A 35% compromise on render throughput is really not all that meaningful, as it will manifest as barely noticeable differences in visual quality settings.

Some of the T3610's will come with 2 X 6 pin power, some will come with 2 X 6+2pin. If you get lucky and get the higher power unit with the 2 X 6+2 pin unit, then you have more flexibility out of the box. A lot of modern GPU's use 1 X 8pin instead of 2 X 6-pin that used to be common (same power rating here either way).. So you may have to buy a dual 6 pin (female) to 8 pin (male) adapter. These are like $15 on Amazon. I bet some shopping around would turn one up for less.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Cheapo entry lvl pc/Wow build"

  • 6 days ago
  • 2 points

I've used Team, Patriot, Corsair, Kingston, Crucial, G.skill.

Behind the fancy heat spreaders is the same stuff made by Samsung, Micron, or Hynix, so use whatever you like.

I see now the Corsair LPX kit rated same speed/timings for the same price. Go for it.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Home server multi-use"

  • 6 days ago
  • 2 points

I actually have a pair of 4TB drives.

Excellent.

As for RAID controllers, my old Mobo has a Promise RAID controller built onto it. So it is hardware based.

No... Promise RAID on a consumer motherboard is nothing more than a firmware implementation of software raid. There is no good reason to use this type of RAID configuration, it's a gimmick, please don't do this. Do some web searching for "fakeraid data recovery" and see how many thousands of threads there are out there with people desperate to recover data from a corrupted raid configuration caused by one of a laundry list of ways for this to go sideways.

After doing that web search, please read the following:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Why-RAID-is-usually-a-Terrible-Idea-29/

If you REALLY want to do a true hardware based raid configuration, there are ways to do this that are GOOD, using industry standard, enterprise grade true hardware RAID controllers from LSI / Broadcom. These cost a few hundred bucks. REAL HARDWARE RAID COSTS MONEY:

Consider for example, a Supermicro AOC-S3108L-H8IR. That's a proper, standardized hardware RAID controller.

In 2019, even the use of true, hardware based RAID is largely going away in mainstream cloud applications. Software defined RAID is more flexible, more portable, more recoverable.

Windows 10 comes with a storage spaces, which works great for setting up basic mirrors, but please, consider whether this is actually useful for your application. The purpose of a live mirror, is to improve resiliency in the case of a drive failure. It will instantaneously mirror any mistakes made, so if you accidentally delete a file, or overwrite a file, the raid configuration replicates the mistake to both drives. That's not a backup/recovery solution.

Can you tell me why you chose the Ryzen 7 vs Ryzen 5 2400g/Ryzen 3 2200b choices from the other posts? Do you think I should be looking at a higher core count instead of higher processor speed?

You said this is a home media server that might spend time doing some media/video processing. The 1700 will transcode video about twice as fast as a 2200G. If you want to use this for streaming video like say, from a plex server, and intend to use real-time transcoding for bandwidth limited situations, the 1700 offers a lot more compute headroom to support multiple simultaneous streams. Also, CPU-integrated graphics solutions are never ideal for systems that are expected to be used as workstations or servers with I/O or compute workloads.

I am surprised by the Patriot memory recommendation. I was lead to believe Patriot was down market memory and to shy away from it for applications where stability is important. It looks like the price is the same as the DDR4-2666 Corsair memory selected in another build. Would you go with Patriot over Corsair? If so, why?

Patriot, Corsair, G.skill, Kingston, ADATA, etc.... None of these companies fabricate memory. These are just re-sellers/brand-names who run a marketing front-end with limited involvement in actual production of memory. The memory chips are all either Samsung, Micron, or Hynix. These "memory brands" just arrange packaging, marketing, heatspreader design, and in some cases, final assembly of components fabricated by other major suppliers. There's not a meaningful difference in quality from one to the other.

I think the reason I gravitate towards those particular Patriot Elite DIMM's, is that I got a great deal buying 4 X 16GB worth of it from amazon a few months back, and the RAM has worked very well in a Ryzen system. Ryzen systems are known for being more picky about memory (though that's mostly gone away in the last year or so)... Especially when FULLY populating a Ryzen system with 4 ranks of memory per channel. At that "load" the memory controller is only technically rated for like 1866-2133 speeds depending on where we read, yet with this memory my 2600 has no problem running perfectly stable at 2666. I attribute some of this stability to the fact that Patriot Elite series DIMM's are made with Samsung B-Die, which seems to be favored by Ryzen memory controllers for stability. (There's lots of evidence for this going way back... AMD themselves even recommends memory with Samsung B-Die chips for best results on Ryzen).

I'm sure for a 2 X 8GB config of single rank DIMM's running at rated speeds (2666), the LPX would work absolutely fine, and I wouldn't hesitate to go that route if you prefer the corsair name standing behind the DIMM.

Looks like the price for LPX is the same. Go for it.

What I like most about your build is the number of SATA ports and a mobo that will run m2 without consuming a SATA port (via PCIE). My case has space for 7 3.5 drives and 4 5.25. So you are giving me the options I wanted in terms of expansion.

Awesome!

BTW, I already have a NIB EVGA SuperNova p2 80+ platinum 650w ps. Some people were including a ps in their build but my plan is to use this.

Nice, that will work great!

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Cheapo entry lvl pc/Wow build"

  • 6 days ago
  • 3 points

In late 2018, Blizzard updated the WoW engine to support proper multi-threading in DX11/12. Take advantage. Go for a 6 core IMO. The price isn't much more and you'll get some more compute headroom for smoother overall gameplay. The 9400F also tends to run higher clock speeds under most workloads than an i3-8100, so you not only get about 10% better average clock speeds but also 50% more cores, all for like $25 more.

Get 16GB RAM now for $25 more.

Skip the small SSD + small HDD combo. Just get a single larger SSD, either 500GB or 1TB.

GTX 1660 offers about 20% more GPU power for around the same price.

I'd probably go for a CX 550 over the older Seasonic there....


PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU Intel - Core i5-9400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor $154.89 @ OutletPC
Motherboard ASRock - B365M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard $69.89 @ OutletPC
Memory Patriot - Viper Elite 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory $71.99 @ Amazon
Storage HP - EX900 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $63.89 @ OutletPC
Video Card Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1660 6 GB OC Video Card $219.89 @ OutletPC
Case DIYPC - Cuboid MicroATX Mini Tower Case $52.88 @ Newegg
Power Supply Corsair - CX (2017) 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply $52.99 @ Amazon
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $686.42
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-18 19:36 EDT-0400

I think it's also worth point out the RX 570 as an option here to save money. In terms of value, nothing beats it right now. We can pick these up for $130 and they are totally competent gaming GPU's. Offers about 75% of the render throughput of a GTX 1660 for 60% of the price.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Home server multi-use"

  • 6 days ago
  • 2 points

RAID: Yes. I plan to store family photos and video and don't want to lose data.

Lets have a little chat about RAID and how it fits into the puzzle.

RAID is a mechanism for grouping drives together to bolster either bandwidth or redundancy or some combination of these things. RAID is not defined as a primary backup solution. While it is reasonable in many environments using server grade standardized controller, or software defined RAID solutions, to define the "mirror" in a raid as offering the first layer of backup, true backup hasn't taken place until the data has been copied to drives that are physically and logically separated from the main servers. A cloud backup solution is the modern standard, but not a requirement. Since you're planning on a VPN to the office, consider setting up a backup target at the office.

FAKERAID: the software defined RAID supported by the BIOS/firmware in many consumer motherboards, should be avoided. There's no reason to tie your data to a specific model of motherboards implementation of FAKERAID. If you loose the board, you loose the array, that's dumb, don't do this, ignore RAID support on consumer motherboards. Use Windows 10 storage spaces to define software RAID configurations. It's very flexible, easy to configure, and PORTABLE. Treat your hardware SATA controller configuration as standard initiator target JBOD.


PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3 GHz 8-Core Processor $159.99 @ Newegg Business
Motherboard Gigabyte - GA-AX370-Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard $126.22 @ Amazon
Memory Patriot - Viper Elite 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory $71.99 @ Amazon
Storage HP - EX900 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $63.89 @ OutletPC
Video Card PowerColor - Radeon RX 570 4 GB RED DRAGON Video Card $129.99 @ Newegg
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $552.08
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-18 17:18 EDT-0400

Rational:

Ryzen 1700 will make a great multi-purpose server/media CPU. Dirt cheap, very efficient.

The motherboard selected is one of few consumer options with 8 X SATA ports, and you can use all 8 of them for storage drives as long as you install a PCIE based M.2 drive on the motherboard as your boot drive (not a SATA based, which is shared with one of the SATA ports).

The boot/application drive chosen is of course, a PCIE M.2, for reasons already stated.

Patriot viper elite is made from great quality samsung b-die memory chips, known to be very stable on Ryzen. I have 64GB of this stuff in a ryzen computer at work and it is a dead nuts stable machine.

This platform requires a GPU. A lesser GPU would work fine but these RX 570's are so cheap it doesn't make sense not to use one IMO. Besides, the openCL performance might come in helpful for media trans-coding and such.

I would probably just buy a new SATA optical drive if you really need one. I like to purchase my Windows 10 Pro Licenses from Trusted Tech Team for $115 each.

I would also advise thinking about whether your 1TB drives and conglomeration of external drives is worth messing with. When it comes to setting up server solutions, keeping things as simple as possible is important for long term maintenance and management of the system. It might be worth just spending some money now to save yourself the hassle long term. You can buy a pair of 4TB drives these days for under $200. The WD40EZRZ is cheap and has a pretty good reliability record.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "GIS Workstation?"

  • 6 days ago
  • 1 point

Yea building these sort of workhorse computers, especially when we want a lot of RAM, gets expensive fast... In order to "fit" 128GB in a modern build, we have to go with an enthusiast platform at minimum, which of course, comes with more expensive motherboard (~$250+), more expensive CPUs (starting ~$500+)... To be honest, if I were in the market to build this sort of computer on a new platform, I might be leaning towards building around an Intel W series Xeon, so that the build would be upgradable to 512GB RAM.... That would get very expensive very fast.. ($1000+ for a decent CPU)...

One thing I forgot to mention.... One of the reasons to upgrade to a newer GPU, is for an HDMI 2.0 port for native support of the 4K TV.... It is possible to buy an active adapter to use an old displayport connection on the Kepler quadro cards on a 4K TV, but the configuration is often finiki, requiring custom settings in the drivers to get them to work. Not worth the time/hassle IMO when a new gaming GPU with native HDMI 2.0 is inexpensive.

Also worth noting, in that generation of workstations, there are lots of other CPU options and configurations available through the marketplace at newegg, but you'll want to avoid the lower clocked options. There's of 6-12 core options in the Bridge generation E5 Xeon's that have base clocks down around 2.4GHZ. While functional, you'll probably want to avoid these. The E5-2667 v2 as a good alternative to the E5-2690 V2 to look out for. The 2667 V2 is 8 cores instead of 10, but clocked higher, so is very comparable.

https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-0001-2CSB0?Item=9SIAC0F8BV8657

Only $735 for that configuration.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Where to go after r5 1600"

  • 6 days ago
  • 1 point

Few more months.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Cheap 4k movie watching"

  • 7 days ago
  • 2 points

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor $119.87 @ OutletPC
Motherboard Gigabyte - B450 AORUS M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard $74.99 @ Newegg
Memory Patriot - Viper Elite 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory $40.98 @ Newegg
Storage HP - EX920 256 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $39.99 @ Newegg
Video Card EVGA - GeForce GTX 1650 4 GB XC BLACK GAMING Video Card $149.99 @ Newegg
Case Thermaltake - Versa H15 MicroATX Mid Tower Case $34.12 @ Amazon
Power Supply Corsair - CX (2017) 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply $39.98 @ Amazon
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $499.92
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-18 06:17 EDT-0400

This gives you a well rounded machine for 4K playback of all sorts.

Enough CPU power for a broad range of CPU based decoding scenarios.

A GPU with well supported 4K decoding capability, including netflix support.

GPU with HDMI 2.0 for 4K 60hz support.


If you can afford another 10%, double up on the SSD and RAM. It'll stretch the useful life of the machine out more than 10%.

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor $119.87 @ OutletPC
Motherboard Gigabyte - B450 AORUS M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard $74.99 @ Newegg
Memory GeIL - EVO SPEAR 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory $67.98 @ Newegg
Storage HP - EX900 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $63.89 @ OutletPC
Video Card EVGA - GeForce GTX 1650 4 GB XC BLACK GAMING Video Card $149.99 @ Newegg
Case Thermaltake - Versa H15 MicroATX Mid Tower Case $34.12 @ Amazon
Power Supply Corsair - CX (2017) 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply $39.98 @ Amazon
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $550.82
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-18 06:45 EDT-0400

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Where to go after r5 1600"

  • 7 days ago
  • 4 points

Wait for Ryzen 3000 IMO. Make the upgrade worthwhile.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "GIS Workstation?"

  • 7 days ago
  • 3 points

Hi RadThad,

Here's an idea that might make things a bit simpler...

Instead of doing a total build, consider a refurbished workstation computer build on an enterprise platform from a few years back:

https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-0001-3G3Y4?Item=9SIAC0F98N5049

There's a 10 core Ivy Bridge E5 Xeon. This is similar in performance to a modern AMD 8 core like the 2700. The machine also comes with 128GB RAM, 500GB SSD, Windows Pro, and a Quadro K600 GPU.

The advantage to the older generation computer here, is that RAM for those platforms is dirt cheap, and, being an enterprise platform, it has more capacity than a current generation consumer platform computer.

The machine in the link comes with 128GB of ECC registered memory loaded up included in the $800 price tag. If you wanted to buy 128GB of DDR4 for a modern build, you'd be sinking about $600-800 into JUST the RAM, not including anything else.

The machine comes with a Quadro K600... which might actually work for this, and if the software you're using doesn't leverage the GPU to accelerate the interface then a better GPU may not be a requirement. There are versions of the refurb sold above configured with K2000 and K4000 GPU's for a few more bucks, but I'd advise pulling the old K600 GPU out and upgrading to something modern instead. The RX 570 8GB for $150 is probably a better buy. I would get the machine in front of you before picking out the GPU though. See what PCIE power connectors are available in the machine you get, some are configured differently than others. It might be nice to pick out a GPU that "mates" to the available connectors better. (for example, it might have a single 8-pin connector, so rather than buy an 8 pin to 6 pin adapter, it might make more sense to just buy a GPU that uses an 8 pin power, like many RX 580's.

For a monitor... for this type of work consider picking up a 4K TV instead. Something around 40-43" is ideal. Pick something that has a proper "PC" operating mode. It will need a true 60hz panel, true RGB display (not RBGW), 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling support, and low latency input. The TCL 43S405 costs less than just about any 1440P or 4K monitor you'll find, and it will probably offer a more useful desktop space for mapping work. A huge borderless canvas to work on with a pixel density, pixel quantity, and size comparable to running 4 X 21" 1080P displays.


Lets see, that's $800 for the computer that includes a Windows 10 Pro license, $150-200 for a GPU upgrade, $250 for the 4K TV...

That's $1200-1300ish and you're basically done. Pick out some peripherals you like and and pocket the savings. I think this will work very well for the intended use.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Can a Ryzen 5 2600 handle a RTX 2070?"

  • 7 days ago
  • 2 points

Just because it’s 4k doesn’t mean you can cheap out on the CPU

It's not the 4K part that lets us cheap out on the CPU, it's the 60hz part, which is pretty much the case for all practical 4K monitor options.

If the monitor is going to set our performance cap at 60hz, there's really no point spending a lot on a CPU...

With that being said, with Ryzen 1600's being so cheap, I see no reason to bother building a computer with anything less than a 1600 regardless of what it is being used for, but that's sort of a separate point.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Samsung 970 evo vs Intel 660p vs ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro"

  • 8 days ago
  • 1 point

I'd also be looking at HP EX920 or Corsair MP510 (if you need encryption).

Seem like great value options.

A couple years ago, samsung was the only name in this NVME business. Now there are so many solid choices I would not pay the samsung price premium except for rare cases.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Can a Ryzen 5 2600 handle a RTX 2070?"

  • 8 days ago
  • 2 points

Would be a different story if you were pairing it with a r3-1200 or 2200g.

What if it were for a 4K 60hz gaming build?

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Can a Ryzen 5 2600 handle a RTX 2070?"

  • 8 days ago
  • 4 points

The question is based in false pretense.

If you're planning to game on a 144hz+ monitor at high FPS, always "tuning" visuals down as required to keep FPS high, the 2600 is going to be a performance bottleneck in some games regardless of GPU choice.

If you're planning to game on a 60-75hz (or maybe higher refresh rate "syncing" monitor) with lower performance goals (happy with 60-90FPS+), and more focus on visual quality and resolution, then the 2600 will do just fine. Again, GPU selection here doesn't matter. It's not about "handling" a GPU, it's about handling your performance goals. Your monitors refresh rate has a lot more to do with your CPU selection than your GPU.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How bad is the AMD A-6-9600?"

  • 9 days ago
  • 4 points

Don't bother.

Buy a refurbished sandy bridge i3 or newer computer and drop a discrete GPU in. You'll spend less than building and get way more out of it.

If you want some ideas/guidance for selecting a refurb let me know.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "How bad is the AMD A-6-9600?"

  • 9 days ago
  • 4 points

The Q6600 is actually a better CPU than the A6-9500.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Shouldn't these be cheaper by now?"

  • 10 days ago
  • 2 points

I think you're missing the point I was making.

When we run 1 thread per core, Intel's arrangement of execution resources achieves higher throughput most of the time, even dating back a few generations for many workloads.

When we run 2 threads per core, AMD's wider core architecture levels the playing field. AMD has caught up in per CORE performance, but not single threaded performance.

Comment reply on Forum Topic "Intel Core i7-8700 Cpu Cooler?"

  • 11 days ago
  • 1 point

You will need a heatsink...

Here are some inexpensive options I would recommend:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type Item Price
CPU Cooler Zalman - CNPS8900 Quiet CPU Cooler $23.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler ARCTIC - Freezer 11 LP Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler $22.85 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.14 CFM CPU Cooler $31.00 @ B&H
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total $77.84
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-14 01:08 EDT-0400

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