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Avengers Endgame Discussion - SPOILERS

manirelli

5 months ago

This is the thread for discussion and spoilers are welcome.

Excelsior!

Comments

  • 5 months ago
  • 15 points

Spoiler.

Thanos is purple.

  • 5 months ago
  • 8 points

Han Solo dies

  • 5 months ago
  • 5 points

What about the droid attack on the Wookiees?

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Hey, that's my joke! :(

[comment deleted]
  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

the senate will decide your date

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

Oh. Damn it didn't expect "spoilers" to mean ruining the plot...

  • 5 months ago
  • -1 points

no it's for people who have never seen a mcu movie or trailer

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

Also, there are Avengers in it.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Dude, you can spoil endgame, but not the deep insightful analysis of the movie that's yet to come

  • 5 months ago
  • 11 points

Whew, movie officially watched and i can browse my replies without a hand covering my face. :)

  • 5 months ago
  • 6 points

I for one appreciate you being a shield from early spoilers for the rest of us!

  • 5 months ago
  • 9 points

Howard Potts was my favorite character.

  • 5 months ago
  • 7 points

Just seen it. I cried 4 times, mostly towards the end. The final battle is amazing, but I pity the cgi people who had to create it. Also, thought's on cpt Marvel's new hairstyle?

Thor getting fat and drunk was funny, definitely one of the lighter moments. Can't wait for phase 5.

Sad Stan Lee didn't get a bigger cameo/more fitting tribute

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

Hated Captain Marvel's new haircut, it just looked very strange and not very well done lol

  • 5 months ago
  • 5 points

i felt like they were trying to force the whole bi/feminist into the movie and thought it was kinda dumb IMO. Didn't look bad but i'm not a big fan

  • 4 months ago
  • 2 points

Same here her first haircut in her movie was much better and much more suiting.

  • 5 months ago
  • -1 points

I liked it. Some of my lesbian friends thought it made her look more bi and powerful and I think I agree. Looked more modern, like she got an update.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

The tribute he got in Captain Marvel was, I think, pretty perfect. So I'm glad they didn't do another one tbh.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

But they did lol, the de-aged Stan Lee in the car?

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Well that was just a standard Stan Lee cameo not a "tribute".

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Ah true!

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I think Captain Marvel looks much better with the haircut. Love it.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

she looks like a feminist now

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

The heck, she doesn't. She still looks better in that haircut. And anyways, its a personal opinion.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

my username has been stolen

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

no mine has

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

i was here first lol

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Thats weird because I hated that they used Thor for comedy relief than literally any other character (that wasn't a main one).

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

There was a very real story for Thor in this film that wasn't just comic relief (though he was that, too).

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

That's fine, but he never turned back to his "infinity war" self by the end of the movie

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

And he never will =) Just like he'll never be who he was at the start of Thor again either.

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

nah they'll make him a little more slim in AOTG vol3

  • 5 months ago
  • 6 points

Obviously the most in-depth spoiler:

Its the story of this overweight Norwegian guy and his friends who are trying to fight this other guy.

  • 5 months ago
  • 5 points

Thanos survived the end of Infinity War.

Also, there may or may not be explosions.

  • 4 months ago
  • 1 point

no, he was killed at the beginning

  • 5 months ago
  • 5 points

Am i the only one that felt bad for Thanos at the beginning

  • 5 months ago
  • 5 points

Man was just gardening and he gets ambushed harder than American soldiers in WWII.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

I know, right? Then blam, Thor with his axe comes swinging.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

no

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

He finally got that dance with his best girl.

Really the movie touched on every story beat that I could have wanted, and more. So many callbacks to the entire series.

My only real complaint, ONLY ONE, is that with them bringing Natalie Portman back into the fold for Jane Foster, I wish they'd used her for more than 3 seconds of screen time. I mean even Wong got to speak a line of dialogue at least; I was looking forward to her reaction to Thor. Still, we got great scenes with Frigga out of that at least.


Time travel never truly makes sense, it's always paradoxical by nature, but I am still trying to wrap my head around how they explain the end. The movie seemed to maintain a logical consistency with how they handled time: changing things in the past did not change their future, because it was creating alternate timelines/realities when they did it, so they could always jump back to their timeline and their timeline still had occurred the same way. But then Old Cap breaks this logic, by going back and staying there thus he should have created a separate timeline/reality to live through with Peggy, yet he appears in the original timeline.

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

Yeah, I think they ended up contradicting their own in-universe rules there, but at least it's not so much a plot-heavy aspect, so I'll just enjoy it.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Natalie Portman scene was deleted scenes from Thor 2

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Ahhhh OK. I had someone else also say that they thought they just took an existing scene and edited it, so that corroborates. Makes more sense this way. Still a mild disappointment but I'm really nitpicking with that lol

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Yeah, they literally got everyone back except for Vision feelsbadman for him lol. Still distraught over the Black Widow death though, ;-((( whyy marvel

  • 5 months ago
  • -1 points

black widow was useless until that movie though

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

So I saw Endgame again last night (as is tradition lol) and I have new thoughts on Captain America's end.

The Old Cap that we see, isn't the same Cap that goes back in time to live his life out with Peggy Carter. Or I should say, to be more accurate, he didn't live through the timeline naturally aging and then arrive at this point in history (which breaks the logic as I had talked about before). Why:

1.) Cap's shield was broken by Thanos. The only person we know for certain who could fix it is Tony, who is dead. Most likely, Shuri could fix it too, being exceptionally experienced with vibranium. But, that doesn't matter, because when Cap boards the teleporter the only things he takes with him are a) the Infinity Stones and b) Mjolnir. He didn't have his shield. How then, could Old Cap not only have aged naturally through the timeline (which was established to be impossible) but also a) lost/left behind Mjolnir and b) acquired a new, mint condition shield?

2.) Bucky knew what Cap was about to do. I didn't pick up on this the first time, which in retrospect seems so obvious. When Cap doesn't come back, Hulk and Sam are panicking. Bucky is cool, and even looks a bit amused (this is all just a moment before he spots Old Cap). You could assume he merely intuited what Cap did... except he had to have known in advance. Moments before all this, when Cap was finished saying goodbye to Sam, he turns to Bucky. They exchange the classic "don't do anything stupid while I'm gone" dialogue in reverse, which Bucky then follows up with, quieter, "I'm gonna miss you bud." Cap tells him "It's gonna be alright." There would be no reason for this exchange if Bucky was expecting him to reappear in mere seconds like Sam and Hulk did. Further, when Old Cap passes the shield to Sam, a hesitant Sam looks to Bucky, who nods him along. Bucky also makes no move to greet or question this Old Cap, nor does he seem super surprised like Sam does. This all together seems to imply one of two things: a) Cap planned what he was going to do and informed Bucky ahead of time, or b) Bucky has previously met/gained knowledge of another Captain America existing already, and knew this would be a relevant moment to that bizarre knowledge/meeting.

So, Old Cap doesn't break the logic of timetravel in the film... but it does expose even more massive questions about how he came to be there. Perhaps we'll get more answers from the Disney+ film, or perhaps the directors just wanted to torment us a bit.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

from what I got from it the past had already happened and that couldn't change unless the stones were taken out, but I have no clue how that time travel was working cause there would've been a lot of changes if there is the butterfly affect

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

SPOILER ALERT

Timestamps at where my theater exploded.:

  1. When Captain Marvel saved Tony Stark

  2. When Thor hacked Thanos's head off

  3. When Ant-Man blasted out of the van

  4. When Thor grabbed his hammer while looking at Marvel and said, "I like this one." and when Cap said, "Lets go get this son of a *****."

  5. When Hulk saw his past self jumping on a car at the battle in New York in 2014 at facepalmed.

  6. When Clint stared back at ScarJo after killing the Chinese guy. (Clint's entry)

  7. When Tony saw his dad, Howard Stark.

  8. When Hulk snapped his fingers.

  9. When they saw Thor with his flabby belly, drinking beer and screaming at a kid over the headset while playing Fortnite.

  10. When Thor caught Stormbreaker and Mjolnr at the same time, eyes glowing with thunder, at the beginning of the huge battle.

  11. When Cap caught Mjolnr.

  12. During the huge war.

  13. When Black Panther and his army started chanting 'yibambe'

  14. When Doctor Strange held off the water flooding in the battlefield.

  15. When Marvel entered the battlefield through the sky.

  16. When Thanos punched Marvel in the face and she just stared at him.

  17. When Stark said "And I...... am....................... Iron Man" and snapped his fingers.

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

Well, now that I've watched it, I can safely say that it was one of the best things I've ever experienced. Period. It was that good.

My theater was going wild during the final battle. Really sad to not just see Black Widow die, but Iron Man; it did start with him, after all, and they hopefully are going to make more.

Cap got his happy ending, too. Absolutely amazing.

A few things that I didn't like/was confused on though:

  • Thor's drunken characterization was really annoying. It didn't really add anything except for a few cheap jokes and was generally pointless.

  • Why was Cap still alive at the very end? If he's in his mid 20s by the mid 40s, he'd be in his late 90s/early 100s/dead by 2023. But nope, looks a lot younger.

  • WHAT HAPPENED WITH LOKI????

Overall, really good movie. (Also, I was in the same physics class as the girl who played an older Cassie Lang.)

  • 5 months ago
  • 4 points

Thor's drunken character shows (aside from humor) that he was at the end of his rope. His role in life has brutally beaten him down. We saw this starting in Thor Ragnarok and Infinity War (and arguably in Dark World, too). Thor has been through a lot to put it mildly, and ultimately feels he failed his entire people. He's lost all of his family and friends. Half his people or more were wiped out. Their entire planet was destroyed (by his own doing). AND he feels he failed the entire galaxy by not killing Thanos in time. He's now "ruler" of a sleepy fishing village on a backwater planet (Earth), the leftover scraps of a once great gilded empire that spanned multiple planets. The entire point of the Frigga scenes on Asgard were about dealing with this emotional baggage. There was actually a lot of points that his fallen state brought to the movie and ultimately this was about freeing Thor from his responsibilities that were put on him from birth, and letting him live for himself. When you realize that the movie was effectively releasing the original "big three" from their roles in the Avengers, in different ways, then Thor's arc makes sense. Interestingly he has potential to appear in a future movie this way (maybe a GotG 3 role?), though it's unlikely we'll ever get a "Thor" movie again and also unlikely he'll appear in whatever ends up being the future of the "Avengers" movies.

It makes you wonder, with Loki taking the Tesseract, what are the implications right? The Avengers inadvertently created an alternate timeline in that moment. One they can't ever "return the stone to" and "fix" like they promised The Ancient One that they would do once they were done in the future. There's going to be a Loki series on Disney+ as well; is it going to be set in the alternate timeline created here? Is it possible for Loki to be still alive in the main MCU timeline? Could we see Thor cameos here? Lots of good questions.

Cap looked pretty damn old at the end. And he's a super soldier so, /shrug. I'm not too worried about whether he looks the proper age. Plus we don't know what time he actually returned to, precisely, unless there was some specific giveaway on the date that I missed. Could have been late 40s, or 50s, etc.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I agree with what you said about Thor. He was always strong-headed in the previous movies but it wasn't until Endgame that we saw him distraught.

As for Loki taking the Space Stone, that didn't make a new timeline because he simply teleported (Space Stone) and not travelled the Quantum Realm like the Avengers did. Thus, the Space Stone stayed in the 2012 reality. They took the Space Stone from the base where Cap is from and where Cap got more Pym Particles.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

As for Loki taking the Space Stone, that didn't make a new timeline because he simply teleported (Space Stone) and not travelled the Quantum Realm like the Avengers did. Thus, the Space Stone stayed in the 2012 reality. They took the Space Stone from the base where Cap is from and where Cap got more Pym Particles.

I know that 2012 Loki took it and the 2019 Avengers didn't take it from that time. But this event was only possible by the direct action of the 2019 Avengers who traveled there, changing the course of the stone. So the stone was never "put back" where it came from like the other ones were; although they never took it back to their time, they did disturb its place in space. I'm thinking about it too much, I know, but this has to create a new timeline.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

It wasn't disturbed. It was taken to a different place but stayed in the same timeline. The Avengers borrowed the Stones from different timelines and then Cap put them back at the end. The Avengers temporarily created different timelines but Loki did not because it stayed within the same timeline.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

It was kicked by Ant Man from the future, which couldn't have happened of they didn't go back. Meaning, it was moved.

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

Why was Cap still alive at the very end? If he's in his mid 20s by the mid 40s, he'd be in his late 90s/early 100s/dead by 2023. But nope, looks a lot younger.

I've heard some people saying him being a super soldier keeps him in really good health. I don't know how that holds up though.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

That does make sense.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

WHAT HAPPENED WITH LOKI????

He was killed at the beginning of Infinity War by Thanos, not by the snap at the end of IW, so he didn't come back when Banner snapped his fingers in Endgame. After watching Infinity War, I had the impression the stones were limitless, but considering Banner couldn't get Nat out of the Soul Stone, there seem to be some limits. Or at least that's one point I'm confused about.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I was more of asking where he went after he stole the 2012 Space Stone and teleported away.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Ah gotcha. With Loki who knows xD

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I think that they could've brought loki back since he wasn't sacrificed for the stone but nobody tried

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

My guess is in the next movie he'll be dead and they will have a funeral

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Holy cow I loved this movie. So happy I was able to go in spoiler-free.

The end for Cap and Stark was amazing. My theater blew up when Cap picked up Mjolnir, and when Stark said his final line and used the stones... Wow. Speechless.

I'm super happy they kept Captain Marvel's role to a minimum. This was the two cornerstones' movie.

I guess if I had to pick out one complaint, I wish Cap had given the shield to Bucky like in the comics. But it makes sense as he is far younger and has a lot of potential.

I also think Nat deserved a better end than she got.

Overall, I think the movie was extremely good, but more importantly, the most satisfying conclusion to a movie universe I've seen. What makes me sad is that we will never have something this good for Star Wars.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

He did actually give the shield to Sam in the comics too. Both Sam and Bucky have been Captain America at different points in the comics.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Ah, I didn't realize that. I never actually read the comics, just heard some of the plot points.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

It was such a good movie, like the best one ever made

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Doctor Strange had only one line in the whole movie

"If I told you, it won't happen."

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Cap giving away his shield to Falcon was the one thing that bugged me the most.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

he should've given it to bucky

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I know right, it just doesn't feel right. I mean, Sam has his own proper superhero identity and gear, while Bucky has near zero recognition. It would have made more sense to give it to Bucky.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Bucky is also at this point in time still a fugitive from the law, so maybe not the best person to give the mantle to right now.

Also he's already got a vibranium arm, and super strength, so let's pass the vibranium armaments around a bit ;D

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Just saw it last night and I’m still a bit of a wreck. The little post-death hologram that Stark had hurt my heart. But oh my goodness that was a great movie. Definitely gotta go see it again.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

The iron man death got spoiled for me, but it was still beautiful. But I think the Natasha sacrifice was more emotional to me. I was never the biggest black widow fan, but I loved her character in endgame.

The only thing that actually brought a little tear to my eye though was the scene with Morgan and Happy talking about cheeseburgers. All of a sudden I was a little kid in a movie theater watching the first Iron Man.

This over decade long legacy that was created, in my opinion, can never be topped. At least not for a very long time. It's been a crazy ride and I loved every moment of it, including Thor 2.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I also gotta say Alan Silvestri knocked it out of the park with the soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCRHUimGwSA

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Do you need to watch Infinity War first to understand it?

  • 5 months ago
  • 5 points

I'd imagine so.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

i would also agree w/manirelli!

  • 5 months ago
  • 4 points

Generally speaking, yes. The movie picks up right after where Infinity War left off and although you can get a LOT of context and pick up the gist of how Infinity War went down, a tonnnnnn of plot threads and character interactions are not going to have the same meaning without having seen IW.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Yep totally. There are a few scenes that require watching Infinity war first to understand.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Wow, I sure liked it when [REDACTED] did [REDACTED] and [DATA EXPUNGED]!

Aha! Just kidding, I never watched the movie.

Your next line is: "Don't watch the movie."

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I liked the part when [REDACTED][REDACTED] a lot too. That part you were talking about though...pretty deep.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

People die in Infinity War

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I'm curious as to why they killed of ScarJo.

Was the death that made me the most sad ;-(

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Yeah that was harsh.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

That was sad. Seeing Clint cry like that was weird.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

best movie ever but does anyone else HATE the fact that there was no end-credit scene?!? They should have done a Stan Lee tribute or something touching just to finish it off.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I don't hate it. It was kind of fitting. Also they did a Stan Lee tribute at the start of Captain Marvel so I'm glad they didn't repeat it.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

i just think it should have been in endgame because it was just a lot bigger, captain marvel was just another marvel movie, it wasn't super important and impactful to the mcu, Stan Lee was the reason this all is a thing and i just think he deserved a bigger part in the biggest movie of the saga

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

I think Captain Marvel was the first one to release after his death, and that's why they did it there. I understand your reasoning though.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

yeah they should've given him a bigger tribute and cameo in endgame

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I think that the only reason Cap got Mjolnir is because he is pretty useless otherwise, change my mind.

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

Well as a practical explanation you might be right lol, Cap was not going to be able to stand physically against Thanos very well, which we already saw in Infinity War (he could barely go toe-to-toe with Ultron, and Loki, in the past). But they did set him wielding Mjolnir up in advance in Ultron, and it has precedent in the comics.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

when he got mjolnir he was a beast tho

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

the second hour felt like a TV show

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Did spiderman kill in Endgame? i noticed that he put his suit on lethal mode which in homecoming was explained to kill.

  • 5 months ago
  • 4 points

I would assume so, its not super clear but besides the point: in the some of the comics the only reason he is not worthy to hold mjolnir is because of his fear of killing, if he did kill i would assume there would eventually be something about that in the future which would be really cool

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Pretty sure his suit was stabbing the **** out of the outriders (4-armed monster dudes) that were attacking him.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Captain America to Bucky: I'm with you to the end of the line. Also Cap: Yeah, I'm gonna ditch you for a thot I got over 10 years ago.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

So I finally watched the movie. Now I just want to know if Captain America was in the Korean war with Mjolnir.

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Thanos is the chosen one meant to bring balance to the force, step aside Anakin!

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

Spoiler: Thor Gets Fat

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

lol I just watched end game last friday. I stayed away from this post cause of spoilers, and cause i understood nothing of what was said

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

I hate bat man dies

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

if the trailer for the new spider is legit.... we can have back thanos and the rest of the gang

  • 4 months ago
  • 1 point

Thanos isn't coming back

  • 4 months ago
  • 1 point

if multi verse is confirm. then yeah hey could come back. that what i was saying. how hard is that to understand

  • 4 months ago
  • 1 point

I understand what you mean. I guess in-universe it could happen, but I don't think they have any plans to bring him back, except maybe in a brief (one scene) role where another dimension's Thanos gives them advice or something, but that seems unlikely.

  • 4 months ago
  • 1 point

true. but still it leaves the door open and billions of bucks more to make.

  • 4 months ago
  • 1 point

Spoiler: Captain marvel is able to fly

[comment deleted]
[comment deleted]
  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Nope, it is confirmed to not happen.

  • 5 months ago
  • 3 points

That's gonna hurt ratings.

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

Indeed

  • 5 months ago
  • 2 points

98% on rotten tomatoes

  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

but thor did take thanos's advice

[comment deleted]
  • 5 months ago
  • 1 point

They didn't change the past by killing Past Thanos or 'Future' Thanos.

[comment deleted]
  • 4 months ago
  • 1 point

Because the way Endgame's time travel works, is that anything you do in the past doesn't affect your present. When you jump back, your present is always unchanged. So for example, you could go back in time and kill yourself, and you'd still be able to jump back to the present and nothing would have changed. You could also, theoretically, jump back dozens of times to different years and collect an army of copies of yourself that you pull into your present.

[comment deleted]
  • 4 months ago
  • 2 points

They can, but it doesn't affect their reality (I believe that this is why in IW Strange says his job is 'protecting your reality'). When they time travel there are 2 realities, the one they came from and the new one they've entered, that's why they need to return the stones and the hammer, otherwise, the people from these new timelines are screwed over. It's unclear though if that happens every time they travel, or if the new timelines are only created when they do something to the stones.

  • 4 months ago
  • 1 point

I thought they said they couldn't change the past

They couldn't, and they didn't. That's my point.

[comment deleted by staff]
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